Getting Started with FIRE with Gwen and Tim Joiner - 157

[00:00:00] Welcome to Money Talk with Skyler Fleming. Making sense of your money, one money talk at a time. Let's get talking.

[00:00:07] Welcome money buddies to this week's episode of Money Talk with Skyler Fleming.

[00:00:12] This week we have a great money talk lined up about FIRE. Financial independents retire early.

[00:00:18] I've mentioned this topic on the show before but never covered it in very much detail.

[00:00:22] So I'm especially excited today to have on two guests to talk about FIRE.

[00:00:26] I also have another episode coming up soon with a specific aspect of FIRE that I know I'm very interested in so I'm sure you will be as well.

[00:00:34] So be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any of the upcoming episodes.

[00:00:37] There are a lot of great ones right on the other side of the horizon.

[00:00:41] Today you can expect an introduction to FIRE, lessons on how to bring it up with your friends and your spouse,

[00:00:46] some small and simple steps you can take to get on the path,

[00:00:49] and some great tips for all of those right around the great age of 20 when it comes to getting started with FIRE.

[00:00:54] FIRE. I'm particularly excited for the conversation about how to start a money talk with friends about FIRE.

[00:00:59] I think that one's going to be great and it's going to allow each and every one of us to go and have a great money talk with a fellow money buddy.

[00:01:05] Quick reminder before we get into today's introduction of today's money buddies,

[00:01:08] you can schedule a money talk with me to discuss any money question you might have.

[00:01:12] Simply go to moneytalkwithscatherfleming.com slash chat or click the link in the show notes and let's get talking.

[00:01:18] Thank you to each and every one of you for sharing the podcast and subscribing.

[00:01:21] I am glad to be back.

[00:01:22] Today's money buddies are Gwen and Tim Joyner, a couple who specialize in FIRE.

[00:01:27] You've likely heard of Gwen from Firing Millennials and both Gwen and Tim have just started a new podcast called FIRE Takes.

[00:01:34] Gwen is a 34-year-old on the path to financial independence.

[00:01:37] She saved $200,000 in five years before realizing it would be worthless if she didn't learn how to prioritize other aspects of her life like health, safety, and happiness.

[00:01:45] Tim is 42 and an engineer.

[00:01:47] He's always been thrifty, bordering on cheap.

[00:01:50] So he's working on being more intentional with his spending while on the FIRE journey with Gwen.

[00:01:54] The money talking points for this week's episode are,

[00:01:57] how can you start talking about FIRE with those around you?

[00:02:01] What step of financial independence are you on?

[00:02:04] And three, what small step can you take to help get on the path to financial independence?

[00:02:08] With those money talking points in mind, let's get talking.

[00:02:20] Hello everybody and welcome to today's interview on Money Talk with Skylar Fleming.

[00:02:25] Joining me today I have Tim and Gwen Joyner.

[00:02:27] I'm excited for this conversation.

[00:02:28] We're going to take a little bit of a deeper dive into talking about FIRE,

[00:02:32] understanding some of the relational aspects of it.

[00:02:34] But Tim and Gwen, I met them at FinCon a couple weeks ago.

[00:02:38] So that was exciting.

[00:02:39] It was my first time going.

[00:02:41] And Gwen, I think you've been a couple times.

[00:02:43] What do you like about FinCon?

[00:02:44] FinCon.

[00:02:44] That's correct.

[00:02:45] This year was year number five for me.

[00:02:48] And I love being in a room full of like-minded people.

[00:02:52] Everybody's interested in talking about money.

[00:02:54] If you're interested in talking about money,

[00:02:56] you're probably pretty interested in talking about some of the other things that I

[00:02:59] like to talk about and have in common.

[00:03:01] And you might even learn something too.

[00:03:04] Yeah, maybe.

[00:03:05] No, there's a lot of great things learned there.

[00:03:06] And there's several podcast interviews like this one that I'm doing that are

[00:03:09] really because of FinCon and meeting people in person.

[00:03:12] Tim, what did you take away from FinCon?

[00:03:13] What did you like about it?

[00:03:15] Yeah.

[00:03:15] So this was my first FinCon.

[00:03:17] So I met Gwen after 2019.

[00:03:19] I did have a lot of connections, a lot of friends from other events that Gwen

[00:03:24] introduced me to.

[00:03:25] So I loved seeing all my friends just getting together and hanging out with those

[00:03:30] people.

[00:03:30] They're the best people.

[00:03:31] And I just really enjoy my time with them.

[00:03:34] So I'm always excited anytime we get together with our financial independence

[00:03:40] media friends, I guess.

[00:03:42] And additionally, I was particularly excited about going to this event just because I'm

[00:03:48] getting really psyched up about working in podcast and creating content.

[00:03:54] I've never done that before.

[00:03:56] So learning about it, seeing other people doing it as I'm trying to get spun up on it was really

[00:04:03] exciting and a lot of fun.

[00:04:05] Well, welcome to the club.

[00:04:06] It's exciting.

[00:04:07] I like creating the podcast.

[00:04:08] So welcome to the club.

[00:04:09] And we'll talk about it a little bit more.

[00:04:10] But you guys are doing a show called Fire Takes, which is going to lead us into what we're

[00:04:15] talking about with fire.

[00:04:16] Do you want to just explain to us what fire is just at a quick high level?

[00:04:20] Yeah, so fire stands for financial independence, retire early.

[00:04:25] And it's all about managing your money in the most effective way to gain independence in

[00:04:34] your life from money.

[00:04:36] And if you want, you can even go as far as to retire early.

[00:04:41] I think we've seen somewhat of a shift in the community over the decade or so that it's

[00:04:46] been a concept and it used to be, you know, just save up as much money as possible, as fast

[00:04:52] as possible.

[00:04:53] And you get to retire early.

[00:04:55] And now I think it's a little bit more deliberate in about the freedom aspect of being able to

[00:05:01] make your own choices and not being beholden to other people's agenda because of money.

[00:05:07] I've mentioned it a couple of times on the podcast, like what fire is, talked about it

[00:05:11] with my audience before.

[00:05:12] But I like to say one of the beginning steps, if you maybe you can't get to that big financial

[00:05:18] independence number, one of the beginning steps that I like to tell people about is

[00:05:21] even just budgeting on last month's income, like being out of that paycheck to paycheck

[00:05:26] cycle is that first step of financial independence.

[00:05:28] And there's so many benefits just from that perspective.

[00:05:32] Tim, what are maybe some of the other benefits of kind of the larger scale fire or financial

[00:05:36] independence?

[00:05:37] That's important to get that first step of, hey, I'm living within my means.

[00:05:42] I'm not living paycheck to paycheck.

[00:05:44] Because then you can start to pursue that financial independence.

[00:05:49] And honestly, like the retire early is nice.

[00:05:53] I don't hate my job.

[00:05:55] So, you know, but I love the concept of financial independence that I love my job right now.

[00:06:03] And I might love it tomorrow, but I might not love it in five years.

[00:06:07] But I'm financially independent and I can make the decision to do whatever I want, you know,

[00:06:14] as my situation and the way I'm feeling changes.

[00:06:17] And then also allows me to, you know, maybe pursue other endeavors, you know, focus more on this.

[00:06:24] Maybe I want to go and be a teacher or maybe I want to go and volunteer my time with young people more or whatever I want to do.

[00:06:31] I have that choice.

[00:06:33] And it's all because of making, you know, smart financial choices, getting in control of my finances and saving money for the future.

[00:06:41] That opens up all those doors.

[00:06:44] Yeah, Tim, I would just say, like, let's maybe imagine a world where you don't have those choices,

[00:06:48] where you're not maybe even close to financial independence and you're kind of stuck, I guess, so to speak.

[00:06:55] How does that contrast in your mind just as you're thinking through those two perspectives of not even having the opportunities?

[00:07:02] Yeah, I mean, that's a good point.

[00:07:04] I really am fortunate and I made some choices early on to get into a career engineering that I do enjoy.

[00:07:14] And I look back at the people that influenced me to make some of those choices.

[00:07:18] And I really appreciate that.

[00:07:22] And I am looking at ways to pay it forward.

[00:07:25] So when I mentioned teaching and working with young people, like, that all plays into it, right?

[00:07:32] You know, those influences because it really is hard to, you know, to be in that situation where maybe you're trapped in work that is difficult.

[00:07:44] And I guess if I found myself where I really wasn't enjoying the working part of, you know, bringing in money,

[00:07:52] that would potentially make me want to focus more on the accumulation, the hoarding, the money to allow me to take the next step,

[00:08:03] to find, you know, maybe a happier place where I, you know, I could bring myself to.

[00:08:08] And I think that being a good steward of your resources always helps in that goal.

[00:08:15] I like the being a good steward helps in the progress of that goal.

[00:08:19] That's a fantastic way to look at it.

[00:08:20] What is the opportunity cost of not pursuing FIRE?

[00:08:23] I mean, the initial one that comes to my mind is you have to work till you're 65, 70 doing a job you probably don't like that much.

[00:08:31] Like, you might like it for a season, but does anyone like their job enough to do it for 40, 45 years?

[00:08:36] Like, that's one place that I immediately go to.

[00:08:39] But Gwen, what's the opportunity cost to not pursue financial independence?

[00:08:44] Yeah, I think it's a lot of stress and anxiety and uncertainty.

[00:08:49] I mean, imagine you get a new boss and that new boss hates you and you are the sole provider for your family.

[00:08:57] And all of a sudden you are stuck in this impossible situation and you don't know what's going to happen to you.

[00:09:03] You're worried about the future.

[00:09:04] You're worried about how you're going to keep food on the table for your family.

[00:09:08] You're stressed out.

[00:09:10] Your health is impacted.

[00:09:12] You know, you don't have the ability to just walk away and find something that works better for you.

[00:09:19] So I think that is probably the biggest thing I can think of is just the impact to your physical and mental health.

[00:09:29] Yeah, when I was kind of when I was younger, maybe in my early 20s or late teens, I was doing more of the job hopping type of thing.

[00:09:37] And I took a job with Sears that they were closing like their store was closing.

[00:09:41] I knew it going into it.

[00:09:42] But you saying that, Gwen, makes me think, what if you were planning to work there for a long time?

[00:09:47] Maybe that was your work forever kind of situation.

[00:09:50] You enjoyed it.

[00:09:51] Maybe it wasn't a job you hated.

[00:09:52] But if you weren't pursuing an ability to have opportunities or an ability to have choices, something comes down like that.

[00:09:59] And now what do you do?

[00:10:00] You have this tenure built up in a company.

[00:10:03] Like you said, maybe your boss changes and you hate that person.

[00:10:05] You don't hate the job.

[00:10:06] But if the store closes or the location closes even, then you're just really stuck.

[00:10:12] Have either of you maybe had a situation like that where if you weren't pursuing financial independence or maybe you were and you were thankful that you were.

[00:10:19] But was there a situation where because of other changes, you were grateful for financial independence?

[00:10:23] I think it gave me a lot of flexibility to make changes and choices that maybe I wasn't I wouldn't have been able to make otherwise.

[00:10:35] So I was able to take nine months off of work in my late 20s and see if I could make a go out of being an entrepreneur and be my own boss.

[00:10:45] And, you know, the answer was no.

[00:10:46] But I know that now.

[00:10:48] And I'm grateful that I got that.

[00:10:51] I had the ability to take nine months off of paid work and try and go out on my own and, you know, get to experience that.

[00:11:00] And then I moved to a completely different area of the country.

[00:11:04] I moved halfway across the country to a region that I never lived in.

[00:11:08] You know, I'd visited, but I'd never been there before as a resident.

[00:11:12] And turns out not for me.

[00:11:16] You know, I moved from Midwest to Washington, D.C., which is a pretty big change going from, you know, small, medium cities to this huge metropolitan area with tons of people.

[00:11:29] And somebody told me that it takes longer to acclimate to living in Washington, D.C.

[00:11:35] than it does to acclimate to living in a different country.

[00:11:38] After a year of being there, I had two different jobs.

[00:11:41] And I was like, listen, it's not it's not the companies.

[00:11:44] You know, it's not the place where I lived.

[00:11:46] I lived three different addresses.

[00:11:48] I, you know, kept trying to make it work.

[00:11:49] And I was like, man, you know, like if I'm going to just be miserable for the next couple of years until I get used to that, you know, being miserable and feel joy again.

[00:11:58] That's not worth it.

[00:11:58] You know, that's not the kind of life that I want to live.

[00:12:01] And so I had that ability to be like, OK, now I'm going to move across the country again and find something that hopefully is a better fit for me.

[00:12:10] Yeah, I'm just hearing you.

[00:12:11] You're just like spewing opportunity and choice and the ability to decide something because you like you said, you took that nine months off and figured out that maybe that wasn't the path for you.

[00:12:21] But if you didn't have that ability, you just sit there for even up until this day, wondering, just trying to figure out what would have happened, what could have happened.

[00:12:30] But you're able to figure it out.

[00:12:31] And sometimes no is the right answer.

[00:12:33] And that's what you learn.

[00:12:34] And you move forward from that.

[00:12:36] But let's say let's talk about it with friends now.

[00:12:39] Let's take the perspective of you're a young adult.

[00:12:41] You're maybe just coming out of college or just entering into that first job.

[00:12:45] And you want to start talking about financial independence with your friends.

[00:12:48] One of my concerns is I'm going to go after financial independence and none of my friends are.

[00:12:52] I'm going to retire early and sit there bored.

[00:12:55] So how do you bring up this idea to a friend?

[00:12:58] What are some useful ways to start this conversation?

[00:13:01] Well, as a 20 something former 20 something year old who used to espouse fire to her friends, I'll tell you what not to do.

[00:13:08] And that's not to talk about it all the time endlessly and just like literally overwhelm them with information and be like, you should do this too.

[00:13:16] It's so easy.

[00:13:17] Oh, my gosh.

[00:13:17] You should do this.

[00:13:18] Wow.

[00:13:18] It's so great.

[00:13:19] Look at all these changes.

[00:13:20] Oh, wow.

[00:13:20] It's so easy.

[00:13:21] Don't evangelize to your friends.

[00:13:22] You know, I would say the best way is to just be an example.

[00:13:28] Maybe sneak in some tidbit here and there, you know, be like, oh, yeah, I heard something blah, blah, blah about our benefits or, you know, oh, I made this change, blah, blah, blah.

[00:13:37] And like your friends are going to pick up that you're pretty money savvy.

[00:13:41] And then you can like slowly, you know, ease into that.

[00:13:45] Like, hey, do you want to help looking over your budget?

[00:13:48] You know, or like, oh, you want to run, you know, this allotment choices for your 401k past me, you know, like, yeah, anytime, you know.

[00:13:57] And just make yourself available and willing to have those conversations.

[00:14:00] But don't, like, force it.

[00:14:02] Just be cool, you know.

[00:14:04] Just take it easy because not everybody has the same, you know, setup and background or desire that you do.

[00:14:12] And it really has to be, you know, their choice and something they're interested in, something they come to you with an interest in.

[00:14:20] And also, there's nothing wrong with living your best FI life and making friends who also live that life instead of trying to convert your existing friend base into FI people.

[00:14:34] Yeah, your existing friends honestly might not want to do it.

[00:14:37] They might be happy with the standard, I guess, so to speak, which as someone who's going after FI can be really hard to wrap your mind around because you're like, why would you want that?

[00:14:45] Yeah, I had a friend who was like, wait a minute, you make how much money a year?

[00:14:50] And you drive that old car.

[00:14:52] I had friends who were like, hey, man, as long as I got money to pay rent and go to the bar, I'm good.

[00:14:57] And it's like, are you an alien?

[00:14:59] Are we the same age?

[00:15:00] Like, how are we existing in the same universe right now?

[00:15:04] Because you're just complete opposites.

[00:15:06] And for some people, that's enough.

[00:15:08] And you know what?

[00:15:09] Retirement, very far away.

[00:15:11] They'll get to it later.

[00:15:12] No big deal.

[00:15:13] They don't want to hear about it right now.

[00:15:14] It's far away in the future.

[00:15:16] The same thing's happening to my wife right now because she just started a job as a PA.

[00:15:19] We both ride our e-bikes to her work.

[00:15:21] I drop her off and then I ride back home to work remote.

[00:15:24] So she gets to work every day and people are like, how are you doing this?

[00:15:27] And also they know she's a PA.

[00:15:28] She doesn't make bad money.

[00:15:30] And we have a 2001 Corolla sitting in front of our apartment that is the alternate mode of transportation to the bikes.

[00:15:36] So I completely get what you're saying there.

[00:15:39] And everyone's on her about saying, why are you biking?

[00:15:42] But it's just a choice that we've decided to make and it's going to help us a lot in the future.

[00:15:46] Well, you know, and it's funny too because those same people are going to, you know, attend her retirement party or her going away party when she's, you know, 35 or whatever.

[00:15:57] And they're going to be like, how did you manage to do this?

[00:15:59] We've made the same money.

[00:16:00] And it's like, you watched me every single day.

[00:16:03] I brought my lunch.

[00:16:04] I rode my bike to work.

[00:16:06] I have, we have one old car.

[00:16:09] You know, we didn't have a $900 a month car payment for, you know, some pick them up truck.

[00:16:16] Like it's those, some seemingly little lifestyle changes that really add up over time and make a difference.

[00:16:25] I like that little piece there about pack your lunch, drive affordable vehicles, ride an e-bike.

[00:16:29] Those are great ways to save money.

[00:16:31] Tim, let's talk about maybe that your friend comes to you knowing you're a money person.

[00:16:35] They know you're going after this financial independence thing, this elusive early retirement.

[00:16:40] How do maybe you receive those kinds of things?

[00:16:42] How do you actually like get people on the right track?

[00:16:45] Yeah.

[00:16:46] I mean, I think that working in, in my industry and engineering, there's a little bit of a, a stereotype that we are to some degree cheap.

[00:16:57] We are thrifty.

[00:16:58] We, since, since our whole career is finding efficiencies, right?

[00:17:02] We generally on the average, we are doing better with being efficient about our incomes and our money.

[00:17:10] So I think there is more free flowing conversations.

[00:17:14] It's certainly at work.

[00:17:16] It's certainly about, Hey, like money, money choices.

[00:17:19] But every once in a while, like yesterday.

[00:17:21] Yeah.

[00:17:22] Yesterday I, we were talking a little bit and someone was talking about, uh, you know, annual enrollment and HSA.

[00:17:29] And I turned to the 20 something and I said, you're maxing out your HSA.

[00:17:33] Right.

[00:17:33] And he said, uh, and the other, another engineer across the way said, I've been telling him, you know, for, for months that he needs to be maxing out his HSA.

[00:17:42] So, so there's still that opportunity to, to have these, uh, these informative conversations, but still, uh, you know, there's still that human nature.

[00:17:51] Do I really need to take that extra $200 out of my paycheck?

[00:17:54] So there's still a lot of fun conversations to have.

[00:17:57] And I really enjoy having them, especially in the workplace, understanding what our benefits are, how our 401k works, being able to have those conversations with people who maybe are just barely scratching the surface.

[00:18:11] Or, you know, maybe they just put their match in there and they're not thinking about anything else, but there's definitely conversations to be had about going to the next step there.

[00:18:21] Yeah.

[00:18:21] There's so much deeper you can go in those conversations.

[00:18:23] And I want to hear your take on this too.

[00:18:25] I'll like over here, a couple of cubicles talking about an HSA or talking about a 401k.

[00:18:30] Should I be just going up and jumping into that conversation?

[00:18:33] Like, is that, or should I kind of keep back and help where I can?

[00:18:36] Um, so in, in my experience, what I've done is if I hear, uh, the, the, the row next to me, you know, having that conversation, I won't necessarily insert myself into it, but I will introduce myself near the end of it.

[00:18:53] Right.

[00:18:53] Like it's wrapping up.

[00:18:54] And then the next time they start going up, I will jump over there and be in the middle of it.

[00:19:00] Like, okay.

[00:19:00] They, they know that I'm part of the tribe, right?

[00:19:03] I'm trying, I'm one of the people that are, that will nerd out on money with them.

[00:19:07] And it's, I'm not trying to take over the conversation, but I absolutely will help and contribute to the conversation.

[00:19:13] So that, that's kind of how I handled it at least is, you know, is to, is to be that observer for at least the first conversation.

[00:19:20] Yeah.

[00:19:20] I think it definitely depends on whether or not you know the people.

[00:19:23] If they're your friends, like absolutely go hop in and, you know, insert yourself into that conversation.

[00:19:28] But if you don't like know the people over there, then I would typically, you know, take Tim's approach or stay out of it entirely.

[00:19:35] And you know that they are at least a warm audience and you can just be like, Hey, do you know anything about this?

[00:19:40] And then you can start maybe something separate as well.

[00:19:43] If you don't know them as well.

[00:19:46] Yeah.

[00:19:46] Um, I've tried the strategy of playing dumb with questions.

[00:19:49] I know the answer to that one, that one works sometimes.

[00:19:51] Sometimes it just feels awkward because then they give you an answer that you know is wrong.

[00:19:54] And then you're like, well, shoot now, how do I correct you?

[00:19:58] Because I know the answer, but those kinds of conversations are fun.

[00:20:01] I like your idea, Tim, of overhear it and introduce yourself because then the next time it'll be okay.

[00:20:06] Because then also if you introduce yourself and they want to hear your take, they'll just ask right there.

[00:20:10] And then the conversation can kick right back up.

[00:20:12] But let's move into marriage.

[00:20:14] Let's talk about marriage and talking about money in a marriage.

[00:20:18] Should fire be the first thing that you talk about when it comes to money?

[00:20:22] Should like forget the budgets, forget the spreadsheets.

[00:20:24] Should fire be the very first thing we talk about in a marriage?

[00:20:27] Uh, no.

[00:20:29] Hopefully not.

[00:20:30] I figured that would be the answer.

[00:20:31] Yeah.

[00:20:31] I knew that one.

[00:20:33] Hopefully, uh, you have been having periodic conversations with your spouse about money

[00:20:38] and like where you stand and goals that you have and where the money's coming from,

[00:20:44] where the money's going, you know, uh, what you want to do in the short term, the medium term, long term.

[00:20:50] And I would say for couples that have been having those kinds of conversations,

[00:20:55] then, you know, there's opportunities to like start seeding the conversation with fire principles

[00:21:00] without being like, I want to retire in 10 years.

[00:21:02] Mm-hmm.

[00:21:03] Because then people are like, no, I have to eat rice and beans and drive a hoopty around.

[00:21:07] Like, I don't want to do that.

[00:21:09] It's all about like the messaging and how you present it.

[00:21:12] Like I saw somebody online today was like, yeah, I told my husband that we could be playing video games all day on the beach in Greece

[00:21:18] in 10 years if we, you know, made these couple tweaks and he was like, I'm in.

[00:21:22] So it's all about knowing your audience, right?

[00:21:25] I was just going to point out that, um, certainly not fire first thing in a marriage,

[00:21:31] but where does it come in the courtship, right?

[00:21:33] If you, you need to, you need to understand, um, where each of you are on money as part of your courtship.

[00:21:45] And you should, you should really have had several money talks before.

[00:21:51] If one of the spouses finds fire five years into the marriage and they run home and they say, hey, you know, like, like Gwen said,

[00:21:59] we can be on a beach in 10 years.

[00:22:01] This is awesome.

[00:22:02] Then that's, that's one thing.

[00:22:04] But, you know, certainly don't not talk about money.

[00:22:07] And then a day after the wedding, oh, by the way, we're working on retiring in 10 years.

[00:22:14] Courtship.

[00:22:14] That's so cute.

[00:22:17] I like that idea.

[00:22:19] Don't bring it up right after the marriage because that could be like, I can just imagine the conversations.

[00:22:24] Like a couple of days after you get married, you're just home from the honeymoon and you say, here's all your money.

[00:22:28] That was yours.

[00:22:29] Give it to me.

[00:22:30] Here's what I want to do with it.

[00:22:31] Like you're going to be divorced in record time if you do it like that.

[00:22:35] So you do need to be careful.

[00:22:38] How do you bring it up?

[00:22:39] Maybe you are into your marriage a couple of years.

[00:22:41] Like you said, Tim, you're running home.

[00:22:43] You're excited because you could be on that beach in 10 years.

[00:22:46] How do you bring it up?

[00:22:48] I might not be the expert on this.

[00:22:49] I, um, Gwen really introduced me to this.

[00:22:51] What I would suggest though is, um, that it comes up as part of your continuing communication about finances.

[00:23:00] That, that the most important thing is to be super comfortable talking about money.

[00:23:06] And then you can have those conversations about fire.

[00:23:09] You can have conversations about like a prenup, your estate planning, you know, all of those conversations that can be uncomfortable.

[00:23:19] If you don't have the rapport that you've built up with your partner talking about money, like that, that just having that rapport, I think is more important than how do I attack this one topic?

[00:23:32] Because once you have that, you can tackle any topic, which by the way, you're going to have to do in the course of, you know, a marriage because the marriage isn't short.

[00:23:42] A marriage is for the rest of your life.

[00:23:43] So you really have to get all the topics.

[00:23:46] So 100% build that rapport.

[00:23:48] And how did you bring that up?

[00:23:49] How did you, how did those regular conversations help?

[00:23:52] But how did you maybe lead into that fire discussion?

[00:23:55] So funny story, like second or third time hanging out, I think, um, we, so we met at the park at a pickup kickball game, uh, has meetup.com different groups and had like three or four meetup groups join.

[00:24:12] And so we had like, I don't know, like 40 people there or something.

[00:24:15] And he and I caught each other's eyes and it was like, all right, okay.

[00:24:19] So you were married the next day.

[00:24:21] Yeah, basically.

[00:24:22] Yeah.

[00:24:22] Well, I mean, we, it's, it's not been, um, we haven't been apart for many, many days after that.

[00:24:28] Let's put it that way.

[00:24:29] So, um, it was our second kickball game that we did.

[00:24:33] And this guy comes up to me and he goes, Hey, this might like be kind of out of left field.

[00:24:38] Um, but like, I feel like I've, I've seen you around before.

[00:24:42] Um, have you been in like any like news articles or anything?

[00:24:46] And I was like, well, yeah, I've been featured in a couple of publications.

[00:24:49] And he goes, I knew it.

[00:24:51] You're Gwen from fiery millennials, right?

[00:24:53] Like the whole fire thing.

[00:24:54] You want to retire early?

[00:24:55] And I was like, yeah, that's me.

[00:24:57] Like, you know, super randomly in the wild.

[00:25:00] And he goes, wow, it's so cool to see another fire adherence here.

[00:25:03] Like, oh my gosh, can we go like grab coffee?

[00:25:05] Can we go grab lunch?

[00:25:06] Like, it's so cool to meet you in person, just completely randomly like this.

[00:25:10] And Tim looks at me and he goes, are you famous?

[00:25:15] And I was like, I mean, no, but well, in pretty targeted applications, I'm a known entity.

[00:25:23] Let's put it that way.

[00:25:24] And he was just like, wow.

[00:25:26] Wow.

[00:25:27] So then he was like, why do people know you?

[00:25:29] And I was like, oh, I've been a personal finance blogger for like the past, you know, eight years or whatever it was at that point.

[00:25:36] And I was like, you know, I've been talking about my journey to financial independence and like how I've managed my money through my 20s.

[00:25:42] And he was just like, oh, yeah, I definitely want to get married to this girl right here.

[00:25:46] This is it.

[00:25:47] Yeah.

[00:25:47] Keep talking.

[00:25:48] This is great.

[00:25:48] Like I couldn't, I couldn't have peppered that conversation to an engineer.

[00:25:53] You got to make sure to watch the video.

[00:25:54] I was like, you want to see my spreadsheets?

[00:25:55] And he was like, yeah, yeah, I do.

[00:25:57] That's so funny.

[00:25:58] So it was very nerdy.

[00:26:00] If you're listening to the audio, make sure you go check out the video because Tim, Tim was reacting to that whole story.

[00:26:05] That was fantastic.

[00:26:05] But what I've learned is get famous in the money realm and then everything will be easier to bring it up from there.

[00:26:12] I mean, it was a, it was a very nice segue.

[00:26:15] Anyway, but it was funny because, you know, after that, Tim went and looked at my blog and he was like, wait a minute.

[00:26:20] This feels like, like reading her personal diary.

[00:26:23] Like I feel like this is a very one sided way of learning about each other.

[00:26:28] And so he actually did not like read any articles or anything about me.

[00:26:32] And we had those conversations organically instead.

[00:26:34] But it was nice that we were able to have that opening is kind of like a way to talk about are we aligned on our values and how we spend money from the beginning.

[00:26:44] For couples that aren't, you know, quasi famous money bloggers, then I would suggest, you know, just asking them questions about like their values and observing their behavior.

[00:26:58] Because you'll learn a lot about how somebody views money just based on the way that they suggest activities, how they dress, how they have clothes.

[00:27:07] And, you know, these are ballpark, right?

[00:27:09] As a general rule of thumb, you'll be able to figure out somebody's approach to money pretty quickly just by being around them.

[00:27:15] And then you can kind of like ease into the conversations around there.

[00:27:19] Like, hey, I've got so much set aside for this month for activities.

[00:27:23] Like what kind of activities do you want to do?

[00:27:24] Do you have an activities budget or something?

[00:27:26] And, you know, kind of like sneak it in there low key.

[00:27:29] And that, yeah, that's a super good idea to like, oh, here's my budget item for this month on, you know, going out to eat.

[00:27:38] What do you think about that?

[00:27:40] What do you, what's your budget item on that?

[00:27:41] And, yeah, you can really suss out if someone's thinking about their money, you know, in a mindful way.

[00:27:48] And that can be an awesome way to start the conversation.

[00:27:51] Because even if they aren't, you know, and they look at you like an alien, that's still a conversation starter.

[00:27:56] And like, you know, I'm not out there looking for somebody who was already on the path to fire and like limiting myself to those people.

[00:28:03] You know, it just worked out that I found somebody who was very receptive to that whole process.

[00:28:09] Because he didn't know about fire before he met me.

[00:28:11] But he was already doing a lot of the basic steps that would get him to financial independence.

[00:28:17] And being around me just kind of led him to be more deliberate and actionable with his money.

[00:28:23] I'm glad to hear that Tim was more receptive to you showing him spreadsheets than my wife was on our first date when I showed her my finances spreadsheet.

[00:28:31] So I did the same sort of thing.

[00:28:33] And that's kind of how I always expose myself when we're telling people our story.

[00:28:37] It's like, here's the kind of person I am.

[00:28:39] I showed her my finances and how I kept track of it.

[00:28:42] But hey, those regular money talks that we have, like you guys say, those are so helpful.

[00:28:46] Because then we're able to figure out the foundation and the basics.

[00:28:49] So that's fantastic.

[00:28:51] That's a great way to really dive into it with your spouse, with your partner.

[00:28:56] Enter into those conversations while you're courting each other, as Tim says.

[00:28:59] But what do you do if one spouse isn't on board?

[00:29:03] Maybe one's like, no, I don't want to do that.

[00:29:04] I want to spend money now.

[00:29:06] How do you handle that?

[00:29:07] I think you really have to dig deep into their understanding of what you're trying to tell them.

[00:29:15] Like, are you hearing the thing that I'm trying to tell you?

[00:29:18] And understand the root cause of why they don't want to do that.

[00:29:22] And see if there's any way that you can accommodate that disinterest or fear or worry or anxiety about whatever part of fire they don't.

[00:29:37] Immediately want to, you know, get on and don't see the, you know, maybe they like spending money and they don't want to be restricted at all.

[00:29:44] So, like, how can you work with them to find a comfortable middle ground that will still allow you to progress towards financial dependence, but also allow them to not feel so, you know, constrained or like you're controlling their money or something, you know?

[00:29:59] And I would say if that doesn't work, then maybe there's something else going on there.

[00:30:04] And maybe finding somebody like a therapist would help or even like a financial therapist.

[00:30:10] They're out there who, you know, talk to couples or people about money and their background and the trauma around spending money or saving money or, you know, money in general.

[00:30:24] And I think you had an interesting story where you said you found a partner that maybe saw financial independence retire early and took that as, oh, you're just going to rely on me to work until I die.

[00:30:37] And you're going to just live off of that, right?

[00:30:40] Yeah, you know, I think both people need to have a stake in getting to financial independence and then also after financial independence, you know, have that full buy-in and understanding of, okay, if we both contribute this amount of money, we'll have X amount of money at this time.

[00:30:58] And then we can both spend, you know, this coming from these income streams and either, you know, I'm not going to be dependent on you if you want to keep working because, you know, I'll have my own money that I have set aside for specifically this purpose.

[00:31:13] And, you know, just show them like, hey, this is the math.

[00:31:17] The math works.

[00:31:18] Yeah, even though you might be doing your finances together and all your money is your money, there's still that mental piece of one spouse is contributing $150,000 a year and the other is contributing $40,000.

[00:31:31] Whether you might be completely aligned and be okay on the surface, but there still might be that little bit of hesitancy in the background of I don't want to go after this because it's just you taking all my money and putting it towards a goal that's mainly your thought.

[00:31:44] So, yeah, at which point, you know, I would definitely suggest that you go talk to somebody about that and, you know, help them see that it's, it's really both of your money and how can you align on your goals.

[00:32:01] Yeah, there are plenty of people out there that I'm sure there's probably someone who's done it before, like a fire couple that have maybe dealt with it or that they could even talk to you about it.

[00:32:10] There's a lot of people out there, especially like you said, financial therapists are a great way to kind of talk through those things.

[00:32:16] You know, there's, there's some people out there that we joke their Wi-Fi, right?

[00:32:19] Because their wife is still working, but they have stopped working.

[00:32:23] So, you know, there's people out there who are navigating that very dynamic.

[00:32:28] So I'll, I'll, I'll update everyone once I reach Wi-Fi.

[00:32:31] It'll be a good point.

[00:32:33] So how does being young benefit?

[00:32:35] Let's talk about some of the, just a little bit of the mechanical piece of fire.

[00:32:40] If someone's 20 and this is the first time they've heard about fire, why is that such a big deal for them in terms of their time?

[00:32:46] Oh my gosh, they have so much, so many advantages.

[00:32:49] A, you haven't made so many decisions that have kind of locked you into a certain path.

[00:32:56] You know, if you're 20, you probably haven't bought that big house or got that fancy car or, you know, sent your kids to private school or, you know,

[00:33:04] any of these other like really kind of big expenses that can, can kind of take over your life and direct your future.

[00:33:15] You know, you don't want to have a big house payment when you'd be house poor.

[00:33:19] So it's, it's a lot harder to turn this ship the way that you want it when you're older, just because of the decisions that you made in the past.

[00:33:29] Um, and then on the, you know, the flip side that you get started earlier, you have so much more time for that money to start working for you and compound and grow and turn into a nice nest egg later when you don't even,

[00:33:44] you're not even saving as much because you have so much time for it to work for yourself.

[00:33:47] I started when I was 21, 22 and I was saving a good amount.

[00:33:53] And now that I'm 34, I don't have to save for retirement at all because that nest egg is working for me in the background and it will grow to be as much as I need in the future.

[00:34:03] Where if you start at like 40 or 45 or 50, you don't have enough time for it to, you don't have that much time for it to grow.

[00:34:12] Like you do when you start at 20, 25, 30.

[00:34:15] Yeah. I like how you spoke to both aspects of time and the opportunity, like the opportunity cost of your youth, where you have some of that natural opportunity built in.

[00:34:25] Cause you, like you said, you haven't made those locked in decisions. You haven't bought that big house.

[00:34:29] You hopefully haven't bought that thousand dollar a month car payment. When you get ahead of that, you're like, wow, that's super lucky for me.

[00:34:36] Um, Tim, what are maybe some small, simple things that people can start doing while they're trying to get on that path to fire?

[00:34:42] Maybe they don't have that income that's going to really get them to it, but they want to kind of start identifying those things.

[00:34:47] That's going to help them maybe avoid those locked in choices or things like that. What are some of those simple steps?

[00:34:52] Yeah. I mean, I think the, the simpler steps, uh, you know, especially if you're, if you're talking about maybe a, uh, a more moderate income individual is, uh, you know, as we talked about a little bit earlier,

[00:35:05] you're getting that budget, right? Getting, getting, getting a hold of what it is, um, you're doing with your money, making sure that you're being, uh, intentional with your spending, right?

[00:35:18] You don't have to be cheap, but be intentional.

[00:35:20] And then as you, you know, as you step into more career, just making sure that you are 100% hitting your company match on a 401k, you know?

[00:35:32] So if you have any 401k, your company is giving you a match.

[00:35:35] That is the easiest money you're ever going to make.

[00:35:38] Do not miss out on that.

[00:35:40] I, you know, speaking back to, to the age, you know, I was in my twenties.

[00:35:47] People talk about the flat decade in the, in the stock market from 2000 to 2010, but I was in accumulation phase during that time, right?

[00:35:54] I'm buying discount stock market that, that whole time, you know?

[00:35:59] So, and you never know what kind of times you're going to be in.

[00:36:03] So make sure that you're, you're, you know, putting in your money, making your, making your investments.

[00:36:09] And, um, and letting it grow, whether you're on a bull market or you're on a down market, because, you know, it will, it will turn around.

[00:36:17] And, and that's, you know, uh, and a down market is, is intimidating, but that's, that's really where you can make, you know, your best money.

[00:36:25] If you're, if you're participating during that.

[00:36:27] Yeah.

[00:36:28] Yeah.

[00:36:28] I'd also say that it's really key to keep your expenses, uh, as low as you can for as long as you can.

[00:36:35] Uh, it's a lot better to be 23 and have a couple of roommates than it is to be 33 with a couple of roommates.

[00:36:41] Um, so, you know, there's things that you can get away with when you're younger, you can travel to hostels.

[00:36:47] Um, and you know, I, I like sleeping on a real bed with a real mattress in my own room now when I'm traveling in my mid thirties.

[00:36:54] Um, so, um, you have a lot of, of opportunities available for you when you're younger, um, to kind of cut back and, and live as simply and cheaply as you can while still, you know, living life and having fun and, and going out and doing things, um, and having that nice balance.

[00:37:11] But yeah, it's way easier to stay simple and cheap and save if you can at the beginning, um, or pay down student loan debt, uh, than it is to be doing that when you're older.

[00:37:23] Yeah.

[00:37:24] That makes complete sense.

[00:37:26] I love it.

[00:37:26] Somehow we're running out of time.

[00:37:28] That time has flown by on this interview and I got two main things that I want to still get to.

[00:37:32] So let's jump to those.

[00:37:34] First, we'll kind of wrap up here with talking about what you guys are doing.

[00:37:37] And then I'll have one question to kind of tell your younger self what you wish you would have done sooner.

[00:37:42] So first let's wrap up by talking about what you guys, what you guys are each doing.

[00:37:46] Uh, Gwen, what is the fiery millennial and where could people find you?

[00:37:50] Yeah.

[00:37:50] So I am the OG fiery millennial.

[00:37:53] Um, my blog is called fiery millennials, um, double N double L.

[00:37:58] And, uh, it's where I update every so often on just musings on what's going on in the world and

[00:38:05] kind of keeping everybody updated with how life is going for me.

[00:38:09] Um, I started it back when I was 24, I think.

[00:38:14] So it's coming up on 10 years and, uh, it's really just a fun way to look back and see,

[00:38:21] um, the, the outcome of some of the decisions that I made early on and kind of look at what

[00:38:28] life looked like then.

[00:38:29] Um, and kind of how it's all turned out now.

[00:38:33] Awesome.

[00:38:34] And Tim, you guys are both doing fire takes, but do you want to tell us a little bit more

[00:38:37] about that?

[00:38:38] Sure.

[00:38:39] Uh, our new podcast fire takes, we are looking for interesting conversations that are going

[00:38:44] on the internet, primarily Reddit, um, that are money related relationship related.

[00:38:51] We're reading them online.

[00:38:52] We're giving our takes because we kind of did the same thing.

[00:38:56] Uh, as we're going to bed, we're laying in bed, we're playing on our phones and I'm like,

[00:39:00] Hey, listen to this story.

[00:39:01] This is crazy.

[00:39:02] And then we would have these great conversations about these stories.

[00:39:06] We're like, we should, we, you know, we should record this, you know?

[00:39:08] So we just started doing it and it's been a lot of fun and, uh, we're, we're really enjoying

[00:39:13] it.

[00:39:14] So, but it's fire takes and you can, uh, look at where, look for us wherever a podcast

[00:39:20] are sold.

[00:39:21] And, um, or you can check us out at fire takes pod.com.

[00:39:25] And that has all the links on how to find us wherever.

[00:39:29] Awesome.

[00:39:30] Well, that's fantastic.

[00:39:30] I listened to your recent episode.

[00:39:32] I believe it was the couple where one of them was lean fi and the other one was still

[00:39:36] working.

[00:39:36] That was a really good one.

[00:39:38] Go check that one out wherever you find this podcast.

[00:39:40] I'm sure you can find fire takes, but I like to wrap it up with a question that I ask every

[00:39:45] guest and either one of you can start first on this one.

[00:39:48] But what is one thing that you wish you could tell your 20 year old self about fire?

[00:39:52] Well, my 20 year old self knew about fire.

[00:39:55] So, um, I would say from the wisdom of the last 14 years, I shouldn't compare progress

[00:40:03] with other people.

[00:40:04] And I think progress at a pace that is right for me and my income rather than trying to

[00:40:10] match what other people are doing online.

[00:40:13] Because, um, it turns out they were making a lot more money than me and saving 70% of $300,000

[00:40:19] is a lot easier than saving 70% of like $85,000.

[00:40:24] So I would say to, to cool it on the keeping up with the fires on the internet, I think live

[00:40:31] more of a balanced life than trying to go all out immediately.

[00:40:34] I would tell my 20 year old self, um, that when I started working, every time I got a raise,

[00:40:42] I got a 3% raise.

[00:40:44] I would have upped my 401k contribution percent by one.

[00:40:49] It's my paycheck still going up, but now my retirement savings are going up by the time

[00:40:55] I was 30, you know, I'd have been contributing 20% of my paycheck to, you know, to my retirement.

[00:41:02] And like, I think that's a really good strategy for limiting the impact of your, uh, you know,

[00:41:08] to your bottom line, to your daily budget.

[00:41:11] You know, every time you get a raise, just put, throw a percentage of it into your 401k.

[00:41:16] Thank you both for joining.

[00:41:18] This has been a fantastic episode.

[00:41:19] I've had a ton of fun recording this one.

[00:41:21] Gwen and Tim, thank you so much for coming on.

[00:41:24] Thank you.

[00:41:24] Thanks so much for having us, Skylar.

[00:41:35] Thank you so much to Tim and Gwen for coming on today's episode.

[00:41:38] I know that was a fantastic interview.

[00:41:40] That's the one of the most fun interviews and longest interviews I've ever done.

[00:41:43] It really is the longest interview I've ever recorded.

[00:41:46] And don't you agree?

[00:41:47] It was a great one.

[00:41:48] After those two great guests, now would be a perfect time to ask you to go leave a five-star

[00:41:53] review on whatever platform you're listening on.

[00:41:55] Of course, there are links to Gwen and Tim in the show notes that you can go connect with

[00:41:58] them further if you have any questions for them.

[00:42:00] But let's continue with the money talking points from this episode.

[00:42:03] The first money talking point is how can you start talking about fire with those around

[00:42:06] you?

[00:42:07] I really liked Tim's idea of introducing yourself to those around you that are talking about

[00:42:11] money.

[00:42:11] He mentioned this in the workplace where if you overhear a financial conversation going on,

[00:42:15] let that conversation come to a close.

[00:42:17] Once it comes to a close or nearing the end, head over and say, hey, I also really like

[00:42:21] this.

[00:42:22] I was interested to hear what you guys had to say or go over and introduce yourself so

[00:42:26] that they can count on you in those conversations in the future.

[00:42:29] And then you can part your wisdom with them and you can share and learn and have great money

[00:42:33] talks together.

[00:42:34] But be sure to be aware of Gwen's point of not evangelizing like crazy and trying to force

[00:42:38] five down everyone's throats.

[00:42:40] I know this was something that I tend to do, especially when I was just beginning with money.

[00:42:44] I wanted to make sure everyone knew all these great ways to manage their money, get on board

[00:42:48] with the spreadsheets that I was creating, all those sort of things.

[00:42:51] But as you get into money further and further, you realize everyone has different ways to

[00:42:55] do it.

[00:42:55] And that's fantastic.

[00:42:56] I've talked about in past episodes about bringing up financial advice to people when

[00:43:00] they may not be looking for it.

[00:43:01] And this can be applicable if someone's heading in the wrong direction with their money.

[00:43:05] How do you make suggestions to try to help them?

[00:43:07] Well, the most likely option is going to be to not say anything because most people don't

[00:43:11] want that unsolicited advice, but it can be tricky because I think it's kind of a duty

[00:43:16] of someone who likes to learn and teach about money to mention things to people.

[00:43:19] So how do I do it?

[00:43:20] Well, I usually prompt people with other creators or episodes of my own, but I've found sending

[00:43:25] them videos or podcasts that others have created is a great way to prompt conversation and get

[00:43:29] things going down the right direction.

[00:43:31] Sending something may be just enough for them to put the brakes on a bad decision before they

[00:43:34] make it.

[00:43:35] But sometimes people are just going to make those decisions regardless of what you say and you

[00:43:38] have to be okay with that.

[00:43:39] So be aware of that and be okay with it.

[00:43:42] And it may be a good chance for you to tune up your knowledge about a different situation

[00:43:45] that someone might be in.

[00:43:46] So you can help that friend further down the road as they continue down that path so that

[00:43:50] you know how to help them when they do come asking questions.

[00:43:52] The most important thing to understand is that when they come asking questions, that is your

[00:43:56] opportunity to give them your advice.

[00:44:00] That's the chance for you to share what you want to share with them.

[00:44:03] So make sure you aren't just evangelizing in the same vein as what Tim suggested with

[00:44:08] going up to people and introducing yourself after they've had those money conversations.

[00:44:12] Make sure your friends know that you know about money and then when they're ready to

[00:44:15] talk about it, they will come to you.

[00:44:17] So make sure you understand that people will come to you when they have money questions and

[00:44:21] that's going to be your chance to answer them.

[00:44:23] That's the first money talking point.

[00:44:25] Let's move on to the second money talking point.

[00:44:27] What step of financial independence are you on?

[00:44:30] Well, let's consider the steps.

[00:44:31] Here's a few that I thought of.

[00:44:33] There's borrowing to survive.

[00:44:34] There's paycheck to paycheck.

[00:44:36] There's living just below your means.

[00:44:38] And then there's living off less than last month's income.

[00:44:41] There's living off last month's income plus a one to three month emergency fund.

[00:44:44] And then getting that to three to six months insurance deductibles covered things like that.

[00:44:49] There's getting your employer match.

[00:44:50] There's maxing out an IRA or HSA.

[00:44:53] There's maxing out a 401k.

[00:44:55] And then there's plowing money into investments for financial independence.

[00:44:59] There's coastify.

[00:45:00] And of course, there's all sorts of different financial independence categories within there.

[00:45:04] But we won't go too much into detail of those.

[00:45:07] Coastify, though, is kind of a status that you hit where your investments are going to grow to what you need them to be for retirement.

[00:45:13] And I have an episode coming up in a few weeks about coastify.

[00:45:16] So make sure you subscribe for that one because it's going to be great.

[00:45:18] But then there's retirement.

[00:45:20] There's early retirement.

[00:45:21] That's the last option.

[00:45:22] I'm sure there's a lot more options when you really think about it between saving a lot of money and retirement.

[00:45:26] But this shows for beginners.

[00:45:28] So let's start having that early conversation about those early steps.

[00:45:31] Let's go through a couple of those.

[00:45:32] Let's talk about the first two because these can be kind of the hardest places to be in.

[00:45:36] Borrowing to survive and living paycheck to paycheck.

[00:45:38] Both are kind of similar.

[00:45:39] If you're living paycheck to paycheck, you may be taking out credit card debt.

[00:45:43] And paycheck to paycheck means barely making those minimum payments.

[00:45:46] But borrowing to survive can be kind of a terrifying place to be in.

[00:45:49] Because what if your credit card maxes out?

[00:45:51] Or what if that limit suddenly decreases?

[00:45:53] And now you don't have any more credit limit to live off of.

[00:45:57] Those can be terrifying places and really hard places to get out from under.

[00:46:01] But let's move on to maybe a little bit of a better situation where you're living just below your means.

[00:46:06] Maybe you're not saving a ton of money, but you're not spending it all either.

[00:46:10] This can feel exhilarating.

[00:46:12] Especially if you've come from a place where you're borrowing to survive.

[00:46:14] If you're now getting to a place where you're living just below your means, go you.

[00:46:18] That means you have some extra money to put towards debt or future goals.

[00:46:21] Even though it's just a little bit extra, that's still so much fun to be in that place.

[00:46:25] Now let's also mention one of my favorite places to recommend people to get to.

[00:46:29] And that's living off last month's income.

[00:46:31] This is where you're budgeting solely based off of money that you made last month.

[00:46:36] And this is fantastic because it ultimately gives you a one month buffer for emergencies.

[00:46:40] Like let's say the worst case scenario happened and you didn't have an emergency fund.

[00:46:44] But you were at least living off of last month's income.

[00:46:47] That would allow you to use that income if you really, really had to.

[00:46:50] You could go down to that paycheck to paycheck step, but you have one month's income naturally built in as a buffer.

[00:46:56] So in that supposed circumstance where everything hits the fan, you have that buffer because you're living on last month's income.

[00:47:02] It's also a really fun place to be because then you can see exactly how much money you have to spend.

[00:47:07] You're not trying to guess when your next paycheck comes in or trying to game it so that when that paycheck comes in, then all your transactions clear.

[00:47:13] Things like that.

[00:47:14] When you're living off last month's income, you know you have money there to spend and live your life.

[00:47:19] Now, when you can add on to that an emergency fund one to three months, three to six months, making sure your insurance deductibles are covered.

[00:47:26] That can also be a really great point because then you know that buffer is there no matter what.

[00:47:31] You don't even have to worry about the current month's income because you know that you have that emergency fund sitting there waiting to be used.

[00:47:37] And if it needs to be used, that's okay.

[00:47:38] If you have to maybe take a step back on your FI journey because you have to use an emergency fund, you should be proud.

[00:47:45] You should be excited that you have that emergency fund there to use.

[00:47:48] So consider that.

[00:47:48] If you've ever had to use an emergency fund, it should be an awesome moment.

[00:47:52] I remember telling my wife that one time.

[00:47:53] I'm trying to remember the specific emergency.

[00:47:56] It was probably a flat tire.

[00:47:57] That happened once to us while we were driving around.

[00:48:00] And I remember saying, oh, we have to get all four replaced or there was a better deal that the price per tire was better and our other tires were getting close anyways.

[00:48:08] So sure, it was an upsell.

[00:48:10] It really was.

[00:48:11] But we had that emergency fund there.

[00:48:13] So I'm like, let's do it.

[00:48:15] This is an awesome opportunity to use the emergency fund that we put aside for this reason.

[00:48:19] It can be stressful and when you're having that conversation, you can be a little worried about what you're going to do and where the money is going to come from.

[00:48:26] But ultimately, you should be able to take a step back and say, look at us go.

[00:48:30] We had this money set aside and now let's use it.

[00:48:34] That's what it's there for.

[00:48:35] And we can slowly build that back up because it's very likely you don't use your emergency fund that much.

[00:48:40] So when you do use it, you can then take some time, spread that out and rebuild it.

[00:48:45] It's ultimately this awesome power that you can have to kind of finance your own purchases with your own money where you spread it out over time because you pay the transaction and then you refill that account slowly over time because those emergencies that hit that fund hard don't usually happen that often.

[00:49:01] So you have time to rebuild that emergency fund.

[00:49:04] So having that emergency fund, I love it.

[00:49:06] It's a great place to be.

[00:49:07] I have a couple podcast episodes about it if you want to go back and check those out.

[00:49:11] Let's hit a couple of three or four real quick about investing.

[00:49:14] Getting your employer match.

[00:49:16] A massive step in financial independence because it's free money.

[00:49:19] It's money your employer is planning to give you that so many people don't take advantage of.

[00:49:24] I bet a lot of companies honestly make a profit off of their employee match because employees don't take advantage of it because they just leave it there on the table.

[00:49:33] So they're able to probably regain those funds back into their balance sheet that they were already considering using for benefits.

[00:49:41] But when they don't take advantage of it, the employers probably get that money right back.

[00:49:45] So make sure you're taking advantage of that free money your employer is willing to give you as part of your compensation.

[00:49:50] And now these last couple steps of financial independence that I was thinking about, like maxing out your IRA, HSA, or a 401k, I've never hit.

[00:49:58] So think about that.

[00:50:00] I'm sure there's a lot of podcasters out there, a lot of financial minds that are just working along this path just like you.

[00:50:06] So consider that.

[00:50:07] You maybe have never maxed out an IRA.

[00:50:09] I've never done it.

[00:50:10] And that's okay.

[00:50:12] That's maybe the next step that my wife and I need to hit is maxing out some IRAs and HSAs.

[00:50:16] So consider that for you.

[00:50:17] What's your next step to get to and be okay with going after that and understand that not everyone's going to be piling money into investment accounts.

[00:50:24] Maybe you're still in that allocation phase and that's okay.

[00:50:28] That's where these money talks really come into play because you can go and have a conversation with a fellow money buddy and say, what step of financial independence are you at?

[00:50:37] And then maybe you're ahead of them.

[00:50:38] Maybe they're ahead of you and you can both share advice on those steps that you're at and how to get through them.

[00:50:44] So take that.

[00:50:45] I love that.

[00:50:45] That's a fantastic conversation we just had right there.

[00:50:47] So go out and have a conversation.

[00:50:49] Ask someone, what step of financial independence are you on?

[00:50:52] And then talk about one of those things that I mentioned.

[00:50:54] Let's talk about the third money talking point here as we begin to come to a close.

[00:50:58] The third one is what small step can you take to help get on the path to financial independence?

[00:51:03] Remember that 401k match thing that I just talked about a whole bunch?

[00:51:06] Make sure to get that.

[00:51:07] Like Tim said, it's going to be huge, absolutely massive towards retiring because it's free money.

[00:51:13] It's money that you don't have to put into your retirement account and into your investments.

[00:51:17] And consider the compound interest off of that employer match to be monumental, honestly, because it just begins to build on itself and build on itself.

[00:51:26] And sooner or later down the road, maybe 30, 40 years, your employer that you had and didn't really like in your 20s is now paying you tenfold because of the compounding interest on that employer match that you made sure to take advantage of.

[00:51:39] It's going to be a huge help for your mindset, especially when it comes to realizing that you can save more money than you think.

[00:51:45] One of the awesome things that OG from Stacking Benjamins often says is crank it up.

[00:51:50] You can always dial it back.

[00:51:51] And I love that advice because if you set it way too high and you're like, whoa, I don't have any money to live on.

[00:51:57] Let's chill it out a little bit.

[00:51:59] And I haven't gotten that to the point where I've been willing to do that.

[00:52:01] But I so badly want to because it'd be cool to see what is that breaking point that we need to scale it back down to.

[00:52:08] At what point does life become uncomfortable because we're investing too much?

[00:52:12] And then scale it back from there to find that happy medium because you're probably going to find you can invest way more money than you realize.

[00:52:19] So find that breaking point where you're uncomfortable and can't live and then scale back your investments.

[00:52:24] I think that's a fun idea to try.

[00:52:25] If anyone's tried it, please let me know.

[00:52:27] I want to talk to you about it on the show.

[00:52:28] And if I try it out, I'll let you know how it goes.

[00:52:31] Tim also had a great piece of advice about bumping up his 401k contributions with each raise he gets.

[00:52:36] It makes sense that if you increase that at the same time as getting a raise, it doesn't feel like you're increasing it at all because you're still getting a raise.

[00:52:43] And I wish this was automatically done by employers.

[00:52:45] I wish it would automatically calculate the correct percentages in order to still get the right increase.

[00:52:51] And it will if you're based on a percentage.

[00:52:53] But it should also increase your percentage because you should take out just a little bit more than you were.

[00:52:59] Say you're doing 6% into your 401k and you get a raise.

[00:53:02] Bump it up to 7% and make that contribution a little bit bigger because your net income is still going to come up with that raise.

[00:53:10] Yes, if you're doing 6%, that 6% before the raise is going to be less than 6% after the raise just due to the nature of percentages.

[00:53:16] But if you increase that percentage, it can still be a really big deal.

[00:53:20] If you were to do this, it's going to cause you to save a lot of money and be a lot more wealthy in the long run.

[00:53:24] Just like Tim was saying, I wish I could go back and increase my 401k contributions with each raise that I got.

[00:53:30] And I know that I really want to do that with any future raises that I will get.

[00:53:33] But this marks yet another episode where the 401k match was mentioned.

[00:53:38] I need to start keeping a tally about this on my website.

[00:53:40] And if you're still not getting the match that's available to you, let this be yet another sign to go and get that right now.

[00:53:46] Like if you can call up your HR right now as you're listening to this, do it.

[00:53:50] Trust me, your lifestyle will adjust with the slightly lesser paycheck that you're going to get.

[00:53:55] And it's going to be okay.

[00:53:56] If you aren't sure how this could work for you, head over to moneytalkwithskytherfleming.com

[00:54:00] slash chat and let's have a conversation about it.

[00:54:02] I'd love to paint the picture for you about how you're going to be okay.

[00:54:05] And you're going to be more than okay once that employer match starts to work for you down the road.

[00:54:10] But what other small steps can you take to get on the path?

[00:54:12] You can save one month's of income right now to begin to budget off of.

[00:54:15] Remember that step I mentioned about budgeting off of last month's income?

[00:54:18] That can be honestly a huge step that doesn't take a whole lot of work to get to just so you're not living paycheck to paycheck.

[00:54:25] Another small step is tracking your expenses.

[00:54:27] This is one that I think people should do before budgeting.

[00:54:30] Honestly, just being able to see where your money is going is massive.

[00:54:33] So start tracking your expenses today and make that your small step to get on the path to FI.

[00:54:37] Also, tracking your income can be great because then you'll know exactly how much you have to spend.

[00:54:41] Then you combine tracking your income with tracking your expenses and you'll begin to see where your money is going.

[00:54:45] Are you working just to pay a credit card off?

[00:54:49] Are you working just to fund a Starbucks or soda or shopping addiction that you don't really enjoy or things like that?

[00:54:56] What are you working for?

[00:54:58] What is your income being spent on?

[00:55:00] When you begin to look at that and begin to understand it by tracking it,

[00:55:03] it's really going to help you automatically and naturally begin to budget and save money.

[00:55:07] As I keep saying, track, track, track, and track some more.

[00:55:10] Data is super helpful towards getting on the path to financial independence.

[00:55:14] Another small step is going to be to talk to someone who is on the path.

[00:55:17] The more people I talk to and the more that I know about financial independence, the more I want to learn.

[00:55:21] And there are so many great tips and tricks out there that others have learned along the way,

[00:55:25] and they're happy to share them.

[00:55:27] Just like Gwen and Tim coming on today's episode.

[00:55:29] There are so many other people in the financial independence space creating podcasts and things like that

[00:55:33] that love to share their tips and advice.

[00:55:36] So submit me a question.

[00:55:37] Submit any of the other financial independence podcasters a question,

[00:55:41] and I'm sure we're all happy to answer it.

[00:55:42] But that's going to do it for today's episode and the money talking points.

[00:55:46] Again, thank you to Gwen and Tim for coming on today's episode.

[00:55:48] But in today's episode, we dove into the world of financial independence and retiring early with Tim and Gwen Joyner.

[00:55:55] They shared insights on how FIRE is about gaining financial freedom and creating opportunities,

[00:56:00] rather than just retiring early.

[00:56:02] We explored the relational dynamics of pursuing FIRE,

[00:56:05] the importance of communication in a marriage about finances,

[00:56:08] and practical steps for anyone starting their financial independence journey.

[00:56:12] Whether it's budgeting on last month's income or leveraging time to let your money grow,

[00:56:16] both Tim and Gwen offered great actionable advice for you, the listener, to go and take.

[00:56:21] And don't forget to check out their podcast, FIRE Takes, for more great money discussions.

[00:56:25] A couple of quick things to touch base on here before we end the episode.

[00:56:29] How are you liking the show now that it's back?

[00:56:31] I need to hear from each and every one of you,

[00:56:33] because I want to make sure that I'm applying the feedback of my most dedicated listeners

[00:56:37] who are still here at the end of the episode.

[00:56:39] So thank you so much.

[00:56:41] Head over to the show notes, click on my email,

[00:56:43] and send me an email about your thoughts from this episode today.

[00:56:46] Or head over to the website and fill out the contact form to submit me any feedback you might have.

[00:56:50] I'd love to get in touch with those of you who are listening

[00:56:52] and hear what you have to say about the show.

[00:56:55] If you have a money question, head over to moneytalkwithskylerfleming.com slash chat

[00:56:59] and schedule a conversation with me and we can talk through any and all of your money conversations

[00:57:03] and questions and anything you have going on in your personal finances.

[00:57:07] But thank you for listening to this week's episode of Money Talk with Skyler Fleming.

[00:57:11] I'm your host, Skyler Fleming.

[00:57:12] Have a great week.

[00:57:13] Thank you for listening to Money Talk with Skyler Fleming.

[00:57:16] This show is provided for informational and entertainment purposes

[00:57:19] and may not be specific to your unique situation.

[00:57:22] Please be sure to do additional research before making any financial decisions.